Is your appraiser packing heat?

Is a concealed weapon your new appraisal tool?

The chances of you encountering an appraiser packing heat (carrying a gun) has increased recently. One of the bigappraisers packing heat (carrying guns) topics trending in the news these days is that of more people choosing to carry firearms. Many people support the right for American citizens to exercise their second amendment right to keep and bear arms while others are equally against it. I’m not writing this post to try to persuade anyone to think a certain way, however it is something that is on the minds of appraisers due to the nature of our business.

Appraisers, like real estate agents, can find themselves in compromising positions because our jobs require us to meet strangers in their  homes or even be in vacant houses that may be occupied by people who shouldn’t be there, such as foreclosure properties that may have squatters. It is in these situations that a firearm could be useful, so today I’d like to discuss things to consider before adding a gun to your appraisal tool belt.

I recently listened to The Appraiser Coach Podcast where Dustin Harris, the host, interviewed two appraisers who currently carry firearms with them on appraisal inspections. It was interesting to hear the perspectives of someone actually doing it. I highly recommend that you listen to it as they bring up some very good points and reference real life experiences.

Concealed carry gun law

Many states have passed the concealed carry gun law which allows you to carry a concealed gun in public, so if you are interested in doing this you should first check to see if it is allowed in your state, and if it is what are the requirements to do so. You will have to pay a fee and have a background check to do this which is something appraisers are used to doing anyway right? 😉

The laws for the state of Alabama, which is where I live have the following requirements:

  • Must be 18 years of age or older
  • The permit is valid from 1 to 5 years
  • The fee is $5 to $20 per year
  • 30 day processing time

Things appraisers should consider about carrying a concealed weapon

If you are thinking about carrying a concealed weapon here are some things professionals say need to be considered:

  • Are you prepared for the worst? It’s easy to think you may act a certain way in a dangerous situation, but are you really able to do so? Many professionals say that if you are not prepared for the consequences before hand you should not carry a firearm.
  • Do you have a game plan? Many people carry a gun in their car, but if you do this is it really going to help you if you leave it there when going into a house?
  • Have you had adequate training? Carrying a firearm is a serious commitment and should not be taken lightly. Just like anything else, if you want to be good at something you must spend the time practicing.
    Putting the time in at the shooting range should be your number one priority in order to be proficient in handling the gun and to have confidence with it. Knowing gun safety is very important also and this cannot be learned by simply buying a gun and storing it in a drawer or glovebox of a car.

There are other things to consider which are not directly related to handing the gun. Do your clients know of your carrying policy? It might be a good idea to let them know from you rather than have a homeowner who sees your weapon and then calls them up to complain. Some homeowners may be good with it while others may not.

Some appraisers may even think that it is none of their client’s business whether they carry a firearm or not. If this is your feelings you should at least be considerate of the banks policy since you are their representative when visiting the property and many homeowners may associate you with the lender.

Alternatives to carrying a gun

As I said at the beginning, I’m not trying to sway anyone in any direction but rather bringing this up as food for thought. You might not feel comfortable carrying a gun but still want more protection than you have right now.

Some alternatives to a gun include mace or pepper spray, tasers, and even knives. Whatever tool you choose to protect yourself you should know how to use it and have an action plan. Running through various scenarios in your mind and what you might do to get out of them can be helpful since formulating a plan on the spot may not be possible.

It’s a good idea to let someone else know where you’ll be and when you plan to be back.  Many appraisers work by themselves and this may not be possible. When this is the case you may want to consider a safety app for your phone. Most of these apps provide features for you to share your location with others and they can even ask on a recurring basis if you’re okay.

Conclusion

Being an appraiser can put us in some potentially dangerous situations. Carrying a gun can give us some piece of mind about our safety but doing so is also a big responsibility that should not be taken lightly. If you choose this option you should do all that is necessary to make yourself as knowledgeable and proficient as possible. There are other options as well but again, you should follow common safety tips and plan ahead for potential problems.

Question

Are you an appraiser or real estate agent that carries a gun? I’d like to hear your take on the matter so please leave a comment below and lets continue the conversation. Thanks again for reading.

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Comments

  1. As an experienced appraiser with a 25 year background I have run across some appraisers and asset managers who carry a “piece” when inspecting REOs in rough neighborhoods. I have appraised homes in the most dangerous hoods in Los Angeles and have run into strange characters in the process; so, knowing the threat that exists in those environments I can understand why some appraisers are armed. It would be wise for CCs to employ a little discretion and not be armed when inspecting regular homes in the peaceful suburbs. The typical occupants don’t need that intimidation and they may discover your insecurity which could inspire some doubts about your professionalism as a real estate appraiser. With a sense of respect and common courtesy I, personally, would not do that to homeowners.

    • Thanks for your insight Baron. I think most that carry do so in such a way that no one would ever know, which is good. I agree that you do not want to put homeowners in a scary position.

  2. Reading with interest…

  3. Matt Cook has a good explanation. also, the people with Permits have had training and been investigated. 99% are good decent people. If you made an appointment with someone, it’s valid, and there is no worries about coming into your home. If someone else is soliciting you, to come in, that’s a different story. Many appraisers don’t have the luxury of rejecting some properties, in the face of competition. I get the vacant homes in gang areas, and foreclosure appraisals. I have had instances where even the occupant of a foreclosure is already full of anger. Lastly, it only takes a few seconds for someone to attack you. YOU may not have the luxury of “walking away” or “blowing your car horn”, and some of those solutions will be too late. The weapon is for “Defense”.

  4. Never felt the need to shoot someone while appraising properties. The day that changes is the day I change professions. I’m not compensated nearly enough to deal with life or death on the job issues. Yes, you can find crazy fringe stories everywhere, like the deputy killed above in a foreclosure activity, but I’m not going to get into a shootout with someone over giving my opinion on what an asset is worth. This is a white collar job.

  5. Indiana Scott says:

    I am 62 and have been in The business 35 years. I own many long guns but no pistols. I have been told that early afternoon around the time school lets out there are extra police and mothers on the street. Bangers are asleep in the morning but active in the evening. My wife holds one end of the tape. On an interior inspections of vacant houses in bad neighborhoods she stays in the car ready to honk engine running or some times keeps moving. At this point I don’t take the ones that scare me. You should have some fear but not let it make you crazy.

    • Yes, I have heard similar tips about when to do inspections in dangerous areas. Appraisers need to be give 100% attention to the house they are appraising rather than worrying about looking for criminals. Take care out there!

  6. Matt Cook, SRA says:

    This morning I received a link to this article in my email stream. An hour later, I received a news feed containing this article, “Colorado deputy killed serving eviction notice to anti-foreclosure activist” http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29556652/park-county-sheriffs-deputy-killed-two-others-wounded). I expect an appraiser trying to view the property for the foreclosure might have met the same fate.

    Here’s my take. Folks–including appraisers and homeowners–who grew up with guns (rural environment, military or law-enforcement service, etc.) see them tools and are not alarmed by them or uncomfortable around them. Folks who did not–city folk me, for example–are less familiar and comfortable with them.

    I think those who want to should be able to (legally) carry their guns, and those who own property have the right to forbid guns on their property. That is why most states that allow carrying have provisions for property owners to post signs to that effect, and people living in those states are accustomed to seeing them in businesses around town.

    There is no need for either side to impugn the motives, sanity, patriotism, masculinity, etc. of the other. We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs, and we are professionals who can treat each other with respect.

    • That’s a sad story, hate to hear things like that. You bring up some good points Matt and I don’t think we should seek to make people uncomfortable, however we do need to assess the situation and make the best decision that increases our safety.

  7. I have not personally carried in a house, but regularly carry in my glovebox. However, people do not think this is very effective when I need it. Having at least some form of protection around is better than nothing, in my opinion. Living in southwest Missouri I do not run into situations that I feel that I need to have a pistol in my possession, even in the rural areas. The good thing about the rural areas around here are the people would welcome someone into their homes that know how to properly handle a firearm. Reading through the comments there have been people saying that there is extensive background checks and classes that show you how to properly handle the firearm. I agree with knowing that people have been through the training and there has been a background check done. However, I do not believe that I would carry on person everywhere I went. There are plenty of places that people are welcoming and make you feel more like a guest than a person doing work at their home. The thought has crossed my mind many times to get my CCW, but I have yet to make the time to acquire it. My ultimate opinion would be that if you are going to carry to make sure that it is concealed and you are not sloppy with how you conceal it to where the homeowner can see it and to be smart with where you carry it, like I am sure the class teaches you to.

    • Thanks Joe, I appreciate your take on the matter. I agree with making sure that you are truly concealed if you decide to carry as this would help to not alarm anyone but you would still be protected.

  8. I was a forester in the northwest for 30 years and have been appraising in Arizona for 16. I was raised with guns and it never crossed my mind to use one to shoot anything other than game. Arizona is an open carry/concealed state, it is part of the culture here and most do not give it too much thought. I have never carried in my career and do not anticipate doing so, but if I was on the south side of Chicago I might look at it in a different light (I do go armed in my RV). I would not judge anyone on their personal decision to carry for protection. I would urge significant thought go into the action of using a weapon. Based on conversations with those in law enforcement who have had to use their weapon, they have described it as a negative life changing experience.

    • Thanks Mark. I think most appraisers that have shared here do not want to have to use the gun and take extra precaution. I think this is an extension of the gun safety classes they may have taken. I agree, I’m sure it would be a life changing experience, one I wouldn’t want to go through.

  9. I was in law enforcement before I went into the appraisal business. I’ve been doing appraisals for over 30 years. I still shoot competitively and practice often so I am very comfortable carrying a weapon. I have a concealed carry permit and always carry. Any time I enter a vacant property I have my weapon. I have walked in on trespassers, vagrants and animals. I have never had to use my weapon but I have had it in my hand several times. My method of carry would prevent anyone from seeing my weapon until I draw it. As a matter of respect to the homeowners I do not carry my weapon into an occupied dwelling. I always leave it in my car. I understand many people have a fear of weapons and would be most uncomfortable if they knew I was carrying one. If I ever feel threatened or have any reason to think I might need a weapon in an occupied dwelling I don’t go in. Situational awareness is something everyone in the real estate business should practice. There is no place for bravado and no one should ever walk into a bad situation on purpose just because they are armed. The best way to prevent trouble is to avoid it. A handgun is for your personal defense and should never have any influence on your decision to enter a property. If you think you need a gun, you should not be going in.

  10. Great Post and discussion Tom! As a female like Michele with the world we live in, after appraising for 22+ years I decided to get a conceal and carry. I did go through gun safety training and I go regularly to the shooting range. I have gone through all scenarios as to what I would do IF I ever needed to use my gun. I am not afraid to pull that trigger if need be. I have a small revolver that easily is concealed. No one would ever know I am carrying a weapon. I only use it when my women’s intuition kicks in as to the person I am meeting. I have a very good 6th sense about people when I talk to them. I am very fortunate that many times I can bring my husband with me if I ever feel unsure about someone. Also I always Carry when I have to walk vacant acreage. I would absolutely hate to think of shooting an animal but if I was confronted and being attacked I would be very happy to have that gun to save my life. If you are going to carry then do it don’t leave it in your car. There are only a few times that I felt the need to carry but with so many attacks on woman we have to be prepared for the worst. Yes it might be a game changer for the profession but other than those few times where I feel I need protection I love what I do for the most part and all professions have their issues! Not only that I love practicing at the range

    • Thanks for sharing your point of view Mary. I have heard from numerous women who have the same viewpoint as you, and to me it makes sense. There have been too many stories of bad things happening to female agents and you have to make a decision at some point to be proactive. Seems like practicing at the range is definitely an added benefit! Take care and be safe.

    • The are gun safes on the market that are designed to be mounted in vehicles. If you have to go to the court house to get property data or to testify, or to the post office, the gun safe will allow you to start your day armed, but secure the weapon in your vehicle when necessary. Entering a shopping mall that is posted “gun free” (which should really be ‘victims available’) while carrying concealed will probably get you a trespass citation at the worst; entering a federal building or most courthouses could get you arrested.

      • I’ve never heard of a gun safe for your car but it makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

      • Barry, of course totally agree and know you cannot carry into certain locations. What I mean by not leaving your gun in the car is when you feel the need to carry at an inspection make sure to carry it on your person rather than putting in car and then leaving it there “just in case” as one person noted here even a quick couple of minutes in a house or on vacant land where it could be unsafe the gun will not do you any good in the car. As a gun owner you must know the laws of your state and where you can and cannot carry. If you are not fully versed on those laws you should not be carrying a gun.

  11. In the 1970’s I was a police officer in a state which did not allow civilians to carry concealed weapons. For the first year or so after I resigned I felt naked every time I left my house. In the past 30 years as an apraiser there have been a few times I wished I had a weapon, but I was able to safely exit the situation without one. I still think about getting a CCL but have not done so, yet.

    • I’d be interested in getting your opinion, since you are former law enforcement, on what you think about people carrying guns like we’re talking about here. It’s been my feelings that most of the people commenting that carry guns have taken training and are not reckless with their gun.

      • I see no problem with licensed concealed carry or with “constitutional carry” in those states like Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and a few others that do not require a license. Crime rates are down in all of the states that have “shall issue” or constitutional carry. The most dangerous cities are those which highly restrict private citizens from owning or carrying firearms. Most police departments only have enough personnel to REACT to crimes — in a crisis where seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. Either be prepared to protect yourself or avoid the area/situation/

        • Thanks Barry. This is an issue I feel will be even more debated as time goes on. Hopefully some of the facts like you describe will not be “forgotten” when people are deciding whether to pass conceal carry laws in their area.

  12. shelby kindred says:

    I am having a hard time understanding the above comments. I assume some of the above Appraisers are Obama supporters who think gun free zones are the answer to all gun-related violence!! Just because someone carries a gun does does not mean they are a criminal! I became a legal carry & conceal licensed gun owner a few years ago after some extremely close calls in some decent and some not so decent neighborhoods. The last thing I would ever want to do is shoot someone!!!!! Fellow Appraisers……….it’s not the homeowners you have to fear, the only problem I have ever had is with criminals in the immediate area. And, as stated above, things can turn bad very quickly and when you least suspect it!! I carry a gun in my car and rarely carry into anyone’s residence, but when I do, it is concealed (legally) and out of sight (unlike the photo associated with this article).

    • Shelby, I don’t think anyone who commented claimed support for any part or candidate in particular but they did share their thoughts and beliefs, which is great. There will be people who feel comfortable carrying and others who don’t want to, which is fine. I agree that not everyone carrying is a criminal, as that would be a gross assumption and I don’t think anyone here believes that. As I stated previously I think we have to consider our surroundings on a case by case basis when deciding whether to carry into a house or just leave it in the car. One thing I have seen from those commenting is that they are level headed and don’t want to have to use a gun. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  13. I am an appraiser in Arizona, a woman who works alone. I have inspected many vacant distressed homes in some very bad neighborhoods and many times was very nervous – but this is my job so I had to get on with it. But I did go armed and I did feel better about it. I am trained because I want to go home at the end of the day. Has anyone thought of a Taser? I also carry a Taser if the house is occupied and a gun might offend or scare. I was confronted by a very drunk homeowner on a inspection in the nicest newest neighborhood you can imagine, he flat out stated, after I was inside doing the interior inspection ” No one knows you are here do they?” After a couple more statements about me being afraid, I put my hand on my Taser, which he could then see and told him he didn’t want to find out. He backed off and I left immediately. Called his lender to explain why I was missing some photos, went home and had an adult beverage and called it a day. The fact is there are weirdos in the world and we must be prepared when/if our paths cross or suffered the consequences of someone’s else anger or dysfunction. No one needs to see or know what you have in your Appraiser’s Tool Box, its your life, safety, health and peace of mind that counts…..don’t walk into a homeowners home looking like Rambo but I can guarantee no one at an AMC/Lender understands or cares about your health, safety or peace of mind. This is our job….not our life so be safe!

    • Wow Michele, thanks for sharing! I don’t think I need to add anything else except that we all have to do what makes us feel safe and we can’t count on AMC’s or lenders to look out for us. Thanks for sharing.

  14. Joshua Hatfield says:

    Great subject, I recently had an experience of being cornered by a pit bull in a bad part of town, had just shut and locked the front door (vacant foreclosure), was placing the combo box back where I found it, stood up and there was the largest pit bull I’ve ever seen about 6ft away staring at me. Luckily I didn’t spend much time thinking about it and started walking intently toward the dog since it was the only way to my car. The dog turned and walked quickly away, as I walked up to my car I noticed a man walking into the woods and the pit followed him. I entered my car and noticed my glove box and console were opened. I am completely to blame for not being more careful. This was a final, checking to see that the gas was turned on as it was a condition in the original appraisal. I wasn’t going to be in the house more than a couple of minutes and figured hey what can happen in that short amount of time, even in this neighborhood. I learned a lot can potentially happen. Hindsight, I don’t know that having my firearm would have been any better. In those moments things happen so quickly that unless as Tom said, you are proficient in firearm handling it wouldn’t have made a difference, however, if the pit had decided to attack maybe I would have been able to pull my weapon while being mauled, or likely would have been frozen with shock from being mauled by a pit bull. I don’t carry a firearm. I have a firearm, even have a shooting range at my land. I consider carrying it with me to some areas but honestly the potential legal mess that would entail is not worth it. It is proven that with a CHL license here in Texas, your liability goes up. Simple misdameaners can mean a felony if you have a firearm on you. I’m a rule follower as I have too much to lose but mistakes happen, its a part of life. So as a feel good I carry my buck knife in my pocket. Will it help, who knows, but it gives me a chance and better than trying to use my bic pen:-)

    • Great story Joshua! You are right, things can turn bad real quick. Glad to hear your situation didn’t turn bad. Maybe some company should market a line of non firearm appraiser weapons, which I’m sure agents could use too.

  15. I am licensed to CC in Georgia and have taken a class for the South Carolina permit. I carry on a daily basis and the key work is “Concealed”. The photo you have at the top of your article is REDICULOUS. I would hope no one carries “concealed” like that. It is typically inside the waist band(appendix carry) or kidney/small of the back inside or outside the waistband depending on whether you are wearing a sweater/jacket.
    Homeowners will never know you are carrying unless you let them know. Most “concealed” carry weapons are compact or sup-compact and difficult to detect if you are smart. I carry in EVERY vacant house that I inspect but only a some occupied houses and re-carry as soon as I get back in the truck. YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU MIGHT NEED IT. I made this a regular practice in 2011 when 30-35% of my appraisal assignments were on foreclosed or pre-foreclosure appraisals. You never know what will happen on these whether occupied or vacant. I have been appraising for over 30 years and have only had to unholster my firearm twice and was very glad that I had it. No one and no dogs were hurt but I went home those nights to my wife and children..

    • Glad to hear your situations turned out well Pierce. I’ve had some appraisers say that homeowners saw that they were carrying so maybe their method wasn’t the most concealed, but the owners didn’t seem to have a problem with it. The picture included was used for illustration purposes only. I’m sure no one would be so obvious. 🙂

  16. Why a gun? The alternative … Just walk away before entering a creepy building. I’ve done that several times while appraising in Brooklyn during the Recession 2007/08
    If you decide to return bring another person, providing of course the amc or bank honors your fee increase.
    If not, move on to the next job.

    • Great point Len. I’ve had to do that in the past whenever I had a foreclosure assignment. I knocked on the door and was met by someone who shouldn’t have been there. I left and told the client that they needed to make sure the property was vacant if they wanted me to go back. No appraisal job is worth an altercation.

  17. Had a permit to carry in NY back in the late 80’s-early 90’s and have had one here in GA since ’94. It’s always with me and when I’m in one of the many sketchy areas of Atlanta it’s strapped to my belt. For the most part it rides with my computer just as my my camera, tape and everything else. I also sell, have not had occasion to strap it on.

    Just use your heads and understand that not everyone is of the same view point on them. The media has done a great job of blaming the tool rather than the individuals using them.

    • Agree with you Hank. I think for the most part those that carry do take it seriously and practice as well as use a level head. I agree with you about the media blaming the tool. This is not a problem with guns but a problem with the heart.

  18. I carry everyday, concealed. Not just to inspectors but every time I leave the house , grocery store, bank…everywhere. Most of my work is non lender so many times I’m an unwanted person or even court ordered to be there. I have been chased out or of severs vacant lender owned property by squatters and ran into a home used as a drug house protected by dogs. My game plan is to leave once someone becomes hostile or makes it apparent I’m not wanted. Easier to just walk away but nice to know I can protect myself is needed and again not just at work but everywhere I go. It’s a crazy world.

    • Sounds like your decision to carry is a right one Mike. It would be irresponsible to not be prepared in situations like you describe. From everyone I’ve heard from they all have the same thoughts on not wanting to use, but knowing that if push came to shove they would be protected. Thanks for sharing!

    • I also carry every day, I understand the responsibility , I take multiple gun courses yearly and practice weekly. I have chosen to carry for the same reason I carry E & O and auto insurance, just in case the worse happens.

  19. Tom,
    I have a CWL for my state which I acquired several years ago. Do I currently carry on assignments ? No. Have I carried in the past-yes. I’ve had a couple of instances where I was inspecting vacant properties in rural locations and thus I went in hot.

    I can certainly understand some of the comments regarding not wanting anyone in their residence. I’ve never carried into an occupied residence. The important point I would like to share here is that most people with a CC permit have gone through the proper training, background checks, and maintain their skills to handle the firearm.

    In Florida, concealment is the key. You can’t go around brandishing a firearm stuck in your belt. It MUST be concealed and not visible to the ordinary person. With the proper equipment, the typical person will never know whether someone is packing heat or not.

    • Thanks Wendell. I agree that it’s all about being trained, but also being cautious. I thing those that have taken training realize that the last thing they want to do is to have to use the weapon. I also think each job assignment should be taken into consideration when deciding if you should carry it throughout the home inspection. It’s good to know that you are able to conceal to such a degree that no one would know you are carrying.

  20. I feel pretty safe here in Portland, Oregon. There are times when I am nervous, but I honestly don’t think a gun would make me safer or more comfortable. I’m more worried about the other guy who has a gun who shoots first and asks questions later when I’m taking photos of his house for a comparable sale or accidentally trespass when looking for another property. In that case, I would just be a dead guy with a gun in his pocket. If I pulled the gun out because I was feeling unsafe, then I would just be more likely to get shot.

    • I think we can all relate to the crazy person who chases us down when taking comp photos. This is definitely a touchy subject since there appear to be a large number of appraisers that do carry. I’d like to hear from people who actually do to hear how it goes.

  21. Mark Buhler says:

    Great topic Tom and I am sure it will stir up all sorts of discussion. I listened to Dustin’s podcast and I certainly understand and respect any appraisers decision to carry. I do not carry. If I ever feel that my chosen career path is so dangerous that I need to carry a gun, I will choose another career. I wonder how many AMC owners/employees feel the need to carry at work?

  22. Thankfully I’ve never encountered a situation where pulling a gun would have been necessary. I’ve had some creepy encounters before, but nothing anywhere near needing to defend myself in that way. I can relate to what Tom M is saying above in that I wouldn’t want a vendor in my home with a gun. I understand some people feel safe by carrying guns, but as a default I don’t trust anyone else to handle a gun properly or abide by safety rules (which I think is a safe assumption to make). I’ll give Dustin’s podcast a listen. Thanks Tom.

    • You and Tom M. make some good points Ryan. I think this is an issue that should be handled on a case by case basis. While crazy things can happen anywhere, appraisers may need to use some discretion when deciding where to carry the gun. A foreclosure on the bad side of town is different than a neighborhood in a low crime rate area. The people Dustin interviewed make some good points as well and is well worth a listen.

  23. I don’t know about anyone else but if someone – who I do not know – appraiser, plumber, electrician, Realtors, or otherwise – showed up for an appointment at my home and packing a gun, I would not allow them in. And, I certainly would report them to the company that they are representing.

    Look, if you feel the need for protection and want to carry a gun in your car then so be it. But if you want to enter my home you will not have a gun. Talk about freaking out your clients / customers!

    • Thanks for your perspective Tom. I can see your point, as you never know who the person coming into your house really is. Did you happen to listen to Dustin’s podcast on this subject? It was very interesting.

    • Paul Herrington says:

      I agree with Tom Molinari. If I know you have a gun, you are not getting into my house unless you point it at me and force me to let you in. It may be your right to carry it but it’s also my right to not let you in. I can certainly understand those who want to do so legally and I’m sure there are some situations where it would be appropriate, such as abandoned properties in a rough part of town or a very rural area. In the vast majority of situations, however, I think there is little to no risk to personal safety and great potential for scaring the crap out of the homeowner.

      • You make a good point Paul. I think this is a case by case situation where you should use your common sense. Many of the people that have been sharing their experiences are ones that do a lot of REO work, which makes more sense.

    • Tom Woolford says:

      Tom M: That’s why they call it concealed carry. You would never know when I am carrying.

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